June 15th, 2005
Hydrogen-Powered Motorcycles Just Around the Corner
I love bikes. (Scooters if you know me well.) But here’s step forward: the hydrogen powered motorcycle. Zoom zoom.
“While attention has been focused on developing pollution-free hydrogen-powered cars, Intelligent Energy and some others have turned instead to two-wheeled transportation. The firm, which is relocating to Los Angeles from London, says the motorcycle’s fuel cell develops the equivalent of eight horsepower, good for speeds up to 50 miles an hour. The cycle has a range of about 100 miles on a tank of fuel. Currently, a hydrogen fill-up would cost about $3, says the cycle’s project director, Andy Eggleston.
“The fuel cell itself can be pulled out and carried around like a small suitcase. The company says it foresees one day being able to use the same fuel cell for different applications, such as a boat. With fewer moving parts than in a conventional motorcycle, the hydrogen-powered motorcycle gains simplicity and quiet. The rider hears little more than the sound of tires spinning over the road or trail. “The total silence in the countryside is fantastic. It’s kind of like riding a horse,” designer Ben Watson says.” Source: USA Today
Our Verdict: 50 mph is for WIMPS. But cool technology with promise.
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speed1001 says:
I really don’t see much benefit here. I have a 93 CBR600 F2. I’m getting about 130 miles per tank which costs between $7-$9 dollars to fill (with premium fuel). Top speed is well above 50mph. The thing I don’t understand is why are these cycles quiet? You don’t want quiet, you want everyone to know you’re there. Ever heard the saying “Loud Pipes Save Lives”? It’s true, why do you think cops don’t pull Harley’s over for noise violations. The more visible (audible) you are to other motorists, the safer you are.
June 16th, 2005 at 3:16 am
Alan says:
Well, see you at the Beltone store in 10 years
June 16th, 2005 at 3:57 am
Carl Atkins says:
I think that the first car probably got better milage that what we get now and boy was it fast, at least 8 mph.
This is a new application for a new technology. Give it some time to mature.
As for loudness saving lives: if yu have the latest boombox on wheels near you, no amount of loud pipes will get through. Depending on the cager to notice you by hearing you will get you run over. YOU are responsible for not letting others make your day medical.
And my tinitis doesn’t need any boosting, thank you…
100k plus on two and still riding…
June 16th, 2005 at 4:46 am
David says:
“Loud Pipes Save Lives” is the biggest pile of crap there ever was. Ever been in a car with the windows up, the AC and stereo on? And ever hear of the Doppler shift? It won’t be heard until it till it’s too late. All you stupid motocyclists that think “Loud Pipes Save Lives” will be the ones buried early.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:10 am
Amelie Poulin says:
speed1001: you are an unfortunate victim of fallacy
http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp
June 16th, 2005 at 6:13 am
Lawrence Scott says:
I believe one of the points being missed here is that the fuel is HYDROGEN. It is the most abundant substance in our world, therefore much more likely to be around in 20 years than, say, OIL.
The amazing thing is that they’ve made it safe enough to use on a moving vehicle (remember the Hindenberg?). This is definitely a step in the right direction — much more than the Hybrid cars that use a ton (literally) of batteries that will clutter the landfills in 15 years.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:19 am
belome says:
I’m glad more and more people are seeing through the Loud Pipes Save Lives crap… The real truth is, Loud Pipes; Lose Rights
June 16th, 2005 at 6:21 am
T-money says:
“Loud Pipes Save Lives”- Cd player with decent built in amp: $120. 3-way Speakers that can handle the power without getting blown: 4 for $120. Install time; 1-2hours, depending on if you know what you’re doing.
So for under $250, (less, if you get stuff on sale) I can gaurantee that I’ll never hear your motorcycle because I’m too busy dropping the bass.
The only thing “Loud Pipes” do is set off car alarms in garages and annoy the neighbors (which is what all Motorcyclists love to do).
June 16th, 2005 at 6:21 am
mycarsoots says:
Loud Pipes Piss People Off (and make them want to run you over).
June 16th, 2005 at 6:25 am
Thomas says:
Those harleys need those loud pipes because thats their status symbol. Most the jap bikes are fairly quiet. I’ll stick with my Yamaha R1 putting out 180hp and being able to do 180mph. You won’t hear me until i’m past you. Till they can come out with something that runs off an alternative fuel that can perform like this forget it. Expect for using up the oil supply new cars and bikes have very low emissions. Its a great idea but needs alot of work to make it usable.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:29 am
Ellis Detripp says:
I’ve known Harley riders to get pulled over for loud pipes, the same as on any other vehicle. But when I’m driving I’ve noticed that I always see motorcycles before I hear them no matter how loud they are. Besides wouldn’t it be cool to have a much quieter world out on the road?
June 16th, 2005 at 6:33 am
Haizum says:
It’s so much more dangerous to ride a motorcycle in the first place, so why bring up noise when clearly you don’t give a rat’s ass about safety?
June 16th, 2005 at 6:38 am
Kyle says:
Loudness does in fact give an audible warning to others that are being approached. If you are at all familiar with the Doppler effect, you can understand the concept. An oncoming sound is increasingly amplified in pitch as a sound approaches something else. As a loud exhaust approaches a car, the drastic increase in pitch alerts most drivers ahead there is something coming- usually, if not completely sensory deprived or dulled from age or other problems, will act even the slightest bit more carefully. You don’t have to have been riding bikes for more than half your life as I have to come to this realization. I’ve come from a 125cc Suzuki that was quieter than the rusty chain on my leg-powered bike, even my 800cc Kawasaki had large baffles. these experiences alone compared to my other bikes, such as my current 805cc Suzuki with slashed pipes, and although though not as loud as straight pipes, there is a noticeable difference in how often I’m saving myself from being wiped off the road by careless mergers.
My advise, don’t trust everything, and I should go as far to say almost everything, that’s read on the internet, Amelie Poulin. Until you have some experience, I wouldn’t go farting about “stupid motorcyclists,” David… From your comment, I can tell you have none, and if you’d like to prove me wrong, going about it in a way that gives justification for your reasons, not just specific occurrences would be far better than a flame comment.
out
June 16th, 2005 at 6:39 am
Kyle says:
anyone interested might even want to reference how much energy goes into creating one hydrogen molecule, and you’ll find it uses a drastic amount more than it returns. as bad as it seems, if there is to be any fuel that is economical in the processing energy to its output, gasoline stands at the top. Hydrogen is probably not an answer to the energy or fuel problem, just a fantasy.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:43 am
Kyle says:
Haizum- most accidents involving motorcyclists are caused by the other driver, so who do you think doesn’t give a rats ass about safety? the vehicle with better acceleration, maneuverability, and braking, or the sight-deprived 2-ton steel cage being hurled down the road?
June 16th, 2005 at 6:46 am
Amelie Poulin says:
spoken like a truly ignorant loud-pipe ‘enthusiast’, Kyle. one cannot choose to believe in facts. they are what they are. you can choose to ignore facts and make the rest of us suffer with loud rib-shaking motorcycles, or you can be a grown-up libertarian and realize that you are infringing on my right to peace and quiet.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:47 am
Haizum says:
Yea, where is all this cheap energy going to come from to synthesize diatomic hydrogen? Oil? Ha. Solar? Ha. Wind? Ha.
The whole hydrogen movement is liberal propaganda. They want you to even feel guilty about your hybrid.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:48 am
jeffron says:
If loud pipes save lives, why isn’t there an insurance discount for them?
Idiot.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:49 am
chris says:
This isn’t really a motorcycle replacement, and I’m surprised they’re marketing it as one. They’d be much better off putting this engine into a SCOOTER frame (think of GenuineScooterCo’s “Stella” design), where top speeds of 50mph don’t bother people. Folks in the scooter world aren’t generally looking for 100mph crotch rockets - they’re looking for efficient, stylish urban transportation - which this could provide quite nicely.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:49 am
chris says:
Kyle - yes, the generation of Hydrogen is not yet very efficient, largely because we’re still using fossil fuels to split the Hydrogen from water (in the most used generation path). But as more wind, solar, and eventually fusion generation come online, Hydrogen WILL be the primary energy source for all mobile applications. So it makes sense to start learning how to uyse it NOW, rather than waiting for the oil implosion.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:51 am
Haizum says:
Kyle-
“According to the US Highway Safety Authority, in 2002 20.9 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 66.7 per 100,000. Given that generally motorcycles cover less distance than cars per year the figure per unit distance is likely to be much worse.” -Wikipedia
As soon as you put yourself on a motorcycle you are knowingly sacrificing a huge margin of safetey.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:52 am
Jason says:
It has to be marketed as a “motorcycle” because most state laws state that a scooter can only transport 1 person at a speed no greater than 35mph. Yes, there are scooters that do more than 35 and carry more than one person, however you need to have a motorcycle endorsement on your license.
I don’t really agree with the loud pipes save lives. I myself have a ‘00 GSXR 600 and I try to keep it quiet, however I do agree. I’m probably not going to even look at buying one of these because it is probably going to cost quite a bit, slower speeds, and doesn’t really save me that much at the pump. Now if I could fill it up out of my garden hose? Sure. Until then, no thank you.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:59 am
josh says:
I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 10 years. And I can say without any doubt that loud pipes DO save lives. The rookies here that do not understand this should not be discussing this.
These hydrogen powered motorcycles sound like a great way to cruise the country side on dirt trails. Usually trail bikes will scare away animals before you even get close. This will allow you to drive by the critters without scaring them.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:59 am
Haizum says:
Riding in a used compact car the same price as a motorcycle would “save more lives” than loud pipes.
The logic you ‘loud pipe’ people are using is like saying “I ran over an entire family, but I gave 2 of them mouth to mouth and saved them.”
June 16th, 2005 at 7:03 am
Drew says:
Loud pipes DO save lives.
Are deaf people legally allowed to drive? No. That is because sound plays an important part of driver’s awareness.
While YOU may drive oblivious to your surroundings, I, for one, use sound as much as possible. I listen for motorcycles, emergency vehicles, speeding teenagers in souped up cars, and especially trucks.
I don’t just listen for vehicles behind me. I listen for vehicles to my SIDE - or at intersections. Motorcyclists fear being “merged into.”
I have ridden a motorcycle, but not the loud kind. I realize that the first step in safety is to THINK, however, noise can SUPPLIMENT saftey. Ironically, I found that speeding kept me out of trouble often, but that’s a separate issue.
The bottom line is that loud pipes offer ONE MORE WAY for drivers to notice a motorcycle.
Bright colors, an active headlamp, thought, sound, all help.
If sound DIDN’T matter,
. emergency vehicles would not be loud
. your car would NOT have a horn
. deaf people would legally be able to drive
June 16th, 2005 at 7:05 am
speed1001 says:
It looks like I sparked a bit a of a controversy here.
I have to say that those who disagree that “Loud pipes save lives,” probably aren’t cycle riders. Let me give you a scenario:
My neighborhood is built on the side of a hill. Very narrow streets with cars parked on both sides and very few stop signs. The chance of someone opening their car door is going to be “lowered” if they hear me coming. I want to make sure that I give myself every possible safety advantage while I’m riding, and if that means people can hear me coming before they see me, then in my opinion “Loud Pipes could save MY life.” Hows that?
Also Amilie, if your are going to post an editorial link, how about giving the other side of the story?
“Loud Pipes MAY Save Lives
June 16th, 2005 at 7:07 am
Haizum says:
Drew-
Are car horns constantly making noise to alert everyone of the car’s existence in the universe? Nope. That’s why deaf people can’t legally drive; they can’t hear the noise of a car horn when someone is trying to alert them.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:08 am
Haizum says:
I think the phrase “loud pipes will keep you alive a little longer” makes more sense, since even the smallest European car would be safer than any motorcycle.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:11 am
Changing LINKS says:
I must add that there are other reasons riders use loud pipes. Some cyclists are idiots with ego issues. Some rev the engine in a quiet neighborhood. However, those facts do not diminish the importance of sound as a PART of safety.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:11 am
Buff says:
I’m also a biker of nearly 10 years - and loud pipes are an unnecessary public nuisance. Both on my bike and in a car I only hear them as they deafen me while passing (by which time it’s too late for me to do anything anyhow). I notice the headlights in my mirrors much, MUCH more.
People put loud pipes on for the couple extra BHP, and because they think they sound cool - I very much doubt safety foremost in their mind.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:17 am
Changing LINKS says:
Haizum: Are car horns constantly making noise to alert everyone of the car’s existence in the universe? Nope. That’s why deaf people can’t legally drive; they can’t hear the noise of a car horn when someone is trying to alert them.
RE: Please re-read your statement. Car horns don’t make noise all of the time - and I agree that if the did, they would be annoying. I can agree that loud pipes annoy some people (even myself sometimes).
Did you know that motorcycles have horns TOO? They ain’t that loud either! They are required by law (with exceptions). That is because the underlying fact is SOUND IS IMPORTANT TO SAFETY.
Sound is useful (as evidenced by horns, sirens, pipes) or it is not.
It can be annoying, but it also contributes to safety.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:17 am
Buff says:
Oh, and in the UK deaf people take the same driving licence as everyone else - sight is way more important for driving than hearing.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:21 am
Haizum says:
Please re-digest your worthless logic.
It is always going to be far less safe to use a motorcyle rather than even the smallest car.
Nothing you do with any motorcycle will make it safer than any car.
The element of sound only makes the motorcycle less rampantly unsafe.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:23 am
Griffin says:
How many macho-schmuck bikers with their pipes blasting above the pain threshold turn around and bitch when some teenager drives by their house with a sub-woofer that rattles windows?
Loud pipes are a nuisance that needlessly startles the shit out of other drivers and vexes everyone else. Loud pipes also induce me to fantasies of blindsiding your grimy ass into the nearest parked car.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:24 am
James says:
Geeze!
95% of people HATE the noise from motorcycles. The only ones that don’t are bike enthusiasts, meat heads, and fat biker chicks with a hairy lip.
Hydrogen is by far are best alternative to fossil fuels - and the energy output ratio is much greater than that of oil. Oil takes millions of yrs to be created, $$$ to extract & refine, and there is a limited supply. Hydrogen is plentiful - and we are just beginning to tap it’s potential. Think how our computer technology was 10-20 yrs ago and now think how our hydrogen cars/bikes/etc will be in 10-20.
PS
Kyle = Meat Head
June 16th, 2005 at 7:26 am
Mac says:
Drew -
Uh, deaf people ARE allowed to drive. I know this for a fact because one of my neighbors is deaf and drives every day. Unfortunately this person is not a very good driver, but that’s another story.
Motorcyclists place themselves at an inherently unfair disadvantage - they ride ON an open, unprotected vehicle while everyone else rides IN a vehicle protected by a steel box. Just because a person chooses to put themselves in that situation doesn’t give them the right to make an obnoxious amount of noise in the name of “safety.”
June 16th, 2005 at 7:27 am
Mr. Wonderful says:
Loud pipes may make you slightly more noticiable, but they annoy the crap out of cagers. Loud pipe jerk-offs are right up there with kids on street bikes that zing in and out of traffic and scare the crap out of soccer moms when it comes to turning peoples attitudes against bikes.
Just show a little courtisy people! Don’t rev or idle your loud bike in a neighborhood if you don’t have to (I know they need to warm up, but not for 20 minutes!) and you younger riders…notice no one that has been riding for more than a few years stunts thier bike in traffic…you can be bold or old, not both.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:28 am
Changing LINKS says:
Oh. So, now you attack my logic. Next, me personally. Why?
I AGREE that motorcycles are not as safe as cars.
Maybe you didn’t realize that. You can retract your insult.
Driving cars in snow is less safe than driving in clear weather.
Cars are less safe than trains.
Trains are less safe than airplanes.
Airplanes are less safe than standing in a field.
We don’t always do the safest things. For example, I ride a unicycle off-road (as an extreme sport). I enjoy the challenge and the risk. Nonetheless, I still wear pads.
By your logic, if you do something less safe, you should simply throw caution to the wind - and do the activity as unsafely as possible.
You imply that you would buy a sports car (that is less safe) and choose not to wear a seat belt. . . . because after all, it’s ‘less safe.’
People can do dangerous things “more” safely.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:31 am
Griffin says:
Speed, regarding your example, wouldn’t it make more sense when riding in your neighborhood with those narrow streets to simply slow f’n down to a speed at which you’d have time to react to a car door opened in front of you? I mean, isn’t that what what any sensible car-driver would do?
June 16th, 2005 at 7:31 am
Haizum says:
“cagers” = slang for someone that drives a car
I’m just guessing.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:32 am
Matt THE Pack says:
Umm, one thing that poeple are probably missing here is the fact that hydrogen fuel cells produce the most badass pollution ever-pure water. Forget performance, in 10-20 years, fule cells will be whooping on horsepower and still be polluting the earth with pure water. Awesome.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:32 am
Changing LINKS says:
I agree with most of what has been posted.
My ONLY point is that:
SOUND IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF SAFETY.
If you agree with that statement alone, we can skip the debate as to whether or not motorcycles are annoying, their riders are “meat-heads,” and etc. I realize that just because I don’t LIKE something, doesn’t mean it is inherently “bad.”
June 16th, 2005 at 7:36 am
James says:
I find loud music and loud bikes both to be annoying. But Kyle is even more annoying.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:45 am
Icecycle says:
The loud pipes issue is one I can’t comment on; I have been riding various types of bikes for the last 40 years and really see very little difference.
This little hydrogen puppy however, seems dangerous.
One thing I do look for in a bike is the abillity to outrun road rage. Sure, you can pack a handgun, (legally in some states.) but have you ever tried to fire one from a moving bike?
As for as safety goes, I just try to make every day that I ride (about a 100 miles a day) the day that I do not have an accident. This seems to work, so far.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:47 am
James says:
OK OK OK
sound IS a part of safety - and Kyle isn’t a meat head.
We should all look forward to the day when hydrogen will replace the $2/gallon fuel we use now.
And I’m sure they’ll make some accessories that can make a hydrogen bike just as loud as a Harley so you guys can be safer.
LOL
June 16th, 2005 at 7:48 am
Bob says:
…because you know, the world will be completely out of oil by 1981.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:53 am
Greggyb says:
This isn’t an issue that can be divided into black and white, save versus unsafe. The argument that is being made - regardless of people’s opinions or personal reasons for getting loud pipes; is that sounds does play a factor when in comes to safety. Not that sound will MAKE you safe, or that reving your engine in a neighborhood is a good thing to do by anyone’s standards.
Sound DOES play a role in driving, regardless of it being the primary sense used (sight is clearly the winner there), but it still makes a difference. When I hear a siren, I immediately look around to determine where it is coming from. Just because I can’t identify where it is from the sound alone, doesn’t mean that I wasn’t alerted to its presence.
I’m going to stick with my loud pipes. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve reved on the Highway or in the city, to see some cager turn their head. I’ve also been run off the road, despite my pipes. I’ll take the few times they’ve helped me, over the countless times nothing could have.
But it doesn’t mean I’m going to rev in a neighborhood, or be a dick at 3am. Don’t group everyone together. Where do you think the 1%ers came from?
June 16th, 2005 at 7:55 am
Greggyb says:
sorry…SAFE, typo.
and if hydrogen works, I’m all for it.
Just on a louder bike, that goes faster- so I dont have to worry about Icecycle and his gun.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:57 am
Biker Trash says:
As a Harley rider I agree that excessively loud pipes are unnecessary. On the other hand I think stock pipes are too quiet. The EPA specifies that the sound levels on their drive-by test have to be 82 dB which is the equivalent sound level of the average vacuum cleaner. I believe there’s a middle of the road for all of us where the rider can have the traditional sound of the Harley but the sound levels acceptable to the general public. I notice that a lot of people don’t like us biker trash. Well, I don’t like people who have no consideration on the road for “motorcyclists” who have equal share of the road but would prefer to “broadside my slimmy ass in the parking lot”, loud pipes or not.
Getting to primary subject of this article. I think this hydrogen powered bike is a good idea being a supporter of anything that doesn’t harm the environment.
June 16th, 2005 at 7:58 am
gollygee says:
OMFG you idiots. You have way too much time on your hands if you care to find things to argue about which are so off-topic to the article.
Move on and get your collective lives back.
Technological progress is cool. It may not be mindblowing all the time, and sometimes the ideas just plain suck. This is necessary for progress.
Again, move on to your next farkicle.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:00 am
me says:
loud pipes= small penis
June 16th, 2005 at 8:01 am
speed1001 says:
Griffen,
I’m not flying through my neighborhood. My safety is the most important thing when I ride. If someone opens a car door 5 or 10 cars ahead of me, I’m going to see it and have time to react. The problem is when the person is 1 car ahead of you and decides to open their door w/o looking. I respect the speed limit around my neighborhood (I’m the guy standing on the porch yelling “Slow Down” to people cutting through my block) and more times than not I’m going slower on my bike than I would in my car. Ask any city bike messenger what he most fears, and I guarantee that somewhere at the top of the list is a car door being opened, they might be ringing their handlebar bell (ching ching) but I bet someone would hear my exhaust before the bell.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:03 am
Changing LINKS says:
Oh the irony of gollygee’s post. LOL
Back on topic (for gollygee’s benefit).
I would NOT ride that “motorcycle.”
I am 6′5″ 230 lbs. I had trouble getting enough pull from my upright Honda 750cc (especially on hills or highway acceleration).
That “bike” would leave a guy like me as a sitting duck.
It’s under-powered. Safety *begins* at 60 mph.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:06 am
Flippy says:
Loud pipes save lives? What a boatload of crap. Skill saves lives along with taking total responsibility for everything that happens on the road and not relying on ANYTHING, like, oh loud pipes lets say, to provide a false sense of security. Ride as if no one can see you, ever. Period.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:21 am
Neanderpaul says:
I think the real issue here is respect. I ride a Harley. It’s loud WHEN NECESSARY. I also respect my neighborhood, and do everything I can not to open the bike up late at night. The majority of the time, I pop the pipes when I’m passing a car. Which, by the way is supposed to be done from the left, so that the driver theoretically can see you. I cannot count the times I have to pop them due to someone who’s on their cell phone. My pipes are slash-cut to the outside so that as I’m approaching the car on my right, the sound is bouncing off of the quarter panel of the car. The driver not only hears me, they “feel” me as well. I think bikers should respect the fact that loud pipes are a potential safety measure, and not a toy. And those in autos need to stay off the phone, shut off the DVD player, turn down the radio…you don’t need it that loud and you know it. Copncentrate on what we’re doing. Moving a half-ton of metal at a high rate of speed in a public setting. We should be spending less time on the recreational aspects of driving, and more time understanding that it’s not all about you. You’re taking the lives of everyone around you into potential hazard every time you turn the key, of fire up that bike. Driving’s not a right. It’s a priviledge. And to those that tout their “right to peace and quiet”…what right is that? I don’t see it on the Bill Of Rights. It’s a local statute, or city ordinance not to create nuisance by making noise. It’s about respect. If you don’t utilize it, you don’t receive it. It goes both ways. Reading some of these posts already shows that many of you lack the concept in the most basic arena. It’s safe to assume you’ll never come to an agreement. Which is fine as well. But respect is earned, not guaranteed. Both side of the “loud pipes” issue need to understand that. Now, as far as the Hydrogen bike goes…can’t you get a conventional pedal bike up to around 30? Can’t you ride 100 miles a day under your own power? So….what’s the benefit of this thing? Honestly. Ask yourself if you’d be better off pedaling than spending thousands on something that really has no measurable benefit over buying a Canondale.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:29 am
Bruce says:
As a longtime rider of motorcycles (100+ K miles), I never rely on automobile drivers to see me and react appropriately. Instead of armor, motorcyclists rely on better awareness, superior maneuverability, small size, and speed to avoid contact. Motorcyclists are usually paying attention to driving - not chatting on cell fones, listening to music, putting on makeup, and doing all the other activities that automobile drivers seem to think that they can do while they are supposed to be driving. Often is is preferable that a motorcyclist is not seen - 80% of drivers never notice you until you are past; but of the other 20% of drivers, 10% will actually try to hit you or squeeze you out (like that’s going to happen) and the other 10% will try to move away from you.
The hydrogen will eventually get easier to produce - but this could be done with fission reactors in the near term. Hydrogen storage needs to get vastly more efficient - probably using some adsorbtion process using nano-particles that can be released with heat. Current storage methods are not very efficient from an energy density perspective. Combine this with a light weight series wound DC permanent magnent motor and bike acceleration should be awsome (along with stopping assisted by regenerative braking using a battery - or other - storage unit) - much better than top end capability that is rarely used.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:36 am
Noise says:
Fact is, whether noisy exhausts are any safer for motorbike riders or not, they annoy most of the population and give harley riders a bad reputation. Personally I cannot stand the out of balance sound of a harley with a loud exhaust. However, my neighbor had an harley with a stock exhaust and the sound was acceptable.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:47 am
Paul says:
Amelie Poulin- There are no facts in your link. I ride a Harley with stock pipes, however in my 39 years experience loud pipes do make other drivers aware that you are near. I just don’t like excessive noise. Let’s all face it, motorcycles are much more dangerous to the driver than cars, and riders who want to live long should drive defensively.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:48 am
Fat Lenny says:
I find it funny that Harley owners would even commment on this post. Not only are Harleys loud, but they are inefficient and poorly engineered. Look really close at a tank seam or a weld on the yoke. What, have they got trained lemurs doing the assembly? You can get much better performance and quality with a European or Japanese product for half the price. Harleys are for post-divorce middle-aged men looking to thrill seek. Most HDs are now being sold to first time buyers, not experienced and respectful cyclists. HD gives the community a BAD NAME. I’ll take a Ducati, BMW or a Honda anyday… heck, I’d take a Ural or a MuZ over an HD.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:54 am
htom says:
I’d rather a scooter, and a lot cheaper. Actually, living in Minnesota, some variation of a tricycle so that I could use it in the winter.
Loud Pipes are probably more responsible for the loss of hearing of those riders than for any other great ill. They can be annoying to non-riders; whether this makes other drivers more aware of the bike or not I had never thought about. IMAO, most drivers are too distracted by things going on in their car to notice others, loud or not.
In Minnesota you may need a doctor’s waiver if you can’t hear the high-pitch warning sounds (there is no hearing test administered by default), but you need a doctor’s waiver for lots of things. These are more in the nature of a paperwork hassle with the nanny state than a blanket prohibition.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:58 am
Jay says:
Noise actually indicates a degree of thermal/mechanical inefficiency which we have sold ourselves as being an indication of power and sounding “good.” (Not that I would argue hard that it does not sound and feel great, but you can’t really rationally argue the reality of the physics and chemistry behind it.)
Even though this puppy is only running at 8 ponies, with a top speed of 50mph when you look at the efficiency of it compared to the “93 CBR600 F2. […] getting about 130 miles per tank which costs between $7-$9″ it simply blows that kind of motorcycle out of the water. With the CBR600, at the low end of the cost of about $2.25/gallon you can go about 18.57 miles per dollar spent, at the low end you will go about 14.44 miles per dollar spent, and if the fuel costs keep going up, that miles per dollar spent will drop. The Fuel cell vehicle? 33.33 miles per dollar spent, almost double.
Not everyone wants huge top ends or quick acceleration, some folks just want to get where they are going in a reasonable time and to those folks, when the costs of the vehicles drop to a more reasonable price, this will appeal. Look how many scooters there are out there, this will have a niche. I would not be shocked if they up the ponies and accelerations of these things so much that in 20 years a 93 CBR600 F2, or the future ICE equivalent will be running neck and neck in a race with the H2 vehicle running 50 to 100 miles per dollar, and the only noise being the tires as it whizzes past.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:03 am
klutch says:
“The louder the pipes, the smaller the penis”.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:13 am
Oni says:
I think that when a loud motorcyclist passes by cars, all the cars should hold their horns down. Yeah, let’s see how many lives that will save. Personally, I do feel that sound plays an extremely important role in safe driving; however I never hears “loud pipes” until they are passing me. Also, i think that using the phrase “loud pipes saves lives” is just an excuse for motorcyclists to drive a little bit more reckless. It is like a cop out. Driving safe is what saves lives, and not driving between two large vehicles, or driving so close to another vehicle while passing you can high five. Loup pipes piss people off, and next time some asshole with a loud chopper comes driving by, Im going to hold my horn down. And if anyone asks, I can just say I wanted him to know I was there, after all, loud horns save lives too.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:14 am
Levii says:
As a rider, I’ll say that I’m very concerned about my safety. I wear a helmet and full body armor at all times. I have my maintenance done, and try to watch out for all the idiots in excessively large SUVs out on the road. I will note that although inherintly more dangerous than an automobile, I can take steps to help enhance my survivablity/accident rate. If being a little loud alerts even one careless person … it’s worth the while.
On a side note … as for oil being a non-renewable resource that’s running out soon. Get out of the 1800s and read up a bit. This is still a grey area of scientific understanding. Most oil reserves are replentishing themselves at astonishing rates. Take a look at abiotic theory. Here are a few easy to read articles on the subject.
http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20040608-092733-4642r.htm
As far as this bike is concerned. If it isn’t overly expensive (and as we improve electrolosis/hydrogen generation techniques) - I’d be interested in having one as a commuter vehicle. It may not cost less to fill, but fuel cell driven vehicles are less costly to maintain. Scooter type vehicles are less costly to insure. I’d be interested from the aspect of total cost of ownership.
My 2 cents.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:18 am
JackLuminous says:
Saw a report on TV the other day about this very bike. They were debating wether to put in a simulated sound in order for it to be safer. I believe this was in England however.
This thing doesn’t go all that fast, and chances are it would be used in an urban setting. Pedestrians in cities are used to hearing things coming at them, cars, bikes and what not, sot it makes sense that this should make some sort of sound. This was the argument used on TV for the simulated sounds, not to protect the rider, but the pedestrians.
0.02 cents.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:18 am
JackLuminous says:
…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4353853.stm
June 16th, 2005 at 9:22 am
Brad says:
The Hydrogen powered bike looks like a step in the right direction. If we would stay on topic, I wouldn’t have wasted ten minutes worth of my boss’ money reading some quite ignorant remarks as to noise pollution and bike vs. car safety. But since you guys brought it up, i will contribute.
Bikes are not necessarily less safe than cars, only more prone to being overlooked by unsafe drivers. To give an explination; if proper riding gear is worn (similar to wearing a seatbelt in a car), then you are far less likely to be injured in an accident. I have personally wrecked a bike at 80 mph and got a mere scratch on my right hand. I was lucky, but had i been in a car, i probably would have been hurt much worse. A 1 & 1/2-ton car carries much more momentum than a 400 lb bike. My speed decreases much more rapidly due to this. I can avoid obsticals and recover from evasive manouvers much more quickly due to this fact as well. How many people have wrecked a car due to “overcorrection”? Also, when your car wrecks, you are immediately thrown into an object much harder than your body. When i wreck my motorcycle, i am thrown clear of it and usually roll or slide on the ground until i come to a stop or, worst case, hit something immovable. Simple logic and physics can tell you that a bike isn’t quite as unsafe as those who are against bikes want to believe. As for unsafe riders “stunting” on the freeway; they are willingly participating in an activity that they are fully aware may result in injury and/or death. They are not representative of the majority of motorcyclists that I know. They are just as foolhardy as the poor drivers that often cause accidents.
As for the noise pollution issue…I don’t care. I know that I will always have to deal with young guys with loud stereos and hicks with loud pipes on their trucks. The bikes don’t bother me, but then again, i am a rider. I willingly accept the risk of riding a bike, but I will not shed a tear for some driver that got startled by me passing them with my loud pipes. If they had been paying attention to their mirrors, they would have seen me coming and been expecting my exhaust note. At least the sound of my exhaust doesn’t have any profanity in it, unlike the majority of music people choose to play at extremely loud volume in their cars.
If you have ever felt the urge to run over a biker for having loud pipes, please cut your driver’s liscence in two and throw it away. You do not deserve to drive a vehicle. To think that you would consider KILLING somebody because they have loud pipes is absurd. Some “libertarian” (french word for ‘Activist who only stands up for what’s trendy and popular’) wants to say she has the right to peace and quiet; what about the right to life? You f-ing ideot!
That is all.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:28 am
Adam says:
I hate motorcycles. Most of the people I see riding them think they own the road. They ride all over the road and pull right in front of you when you have hardly any room for them. I hate the loud noise. If I wanted to hear that crap, I’d have one myself. A world without motorcycles would be a better world.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:34 am
Stunt Boy says:
Adam-
Last G/F left you for a guy with a bike, huh?
June 16th, 2005 at 9:36 am
Chachi says:
The whole point of this bike is to find something that urns on an alternative energy source. Something that won’t be gone in 15-20 years. The supply of Hydrogen, as noted, is unlimited unlike that of fossil fuels. If everyone could get off their macho trip about being loud and having a huge cycle that goes ridiculously fast, we might be in a better world (country?). Typical for us Americans I guess. Look no farther than right now.
In the words of Mark Wahlberg in I Heart Huckabees,
“We’d all be heroes if we stopped using petroleum.”
June 16th, 2005 at 9:38 am
Paul says:
Fat Lenny, I’ve ridden hundreds of bikes, and chose HD. Your comments reveal much about you.
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. — Mark Twain
June 16th, 2005 at 9:38 am
John Milton says:
The loud pipes are really just an excuse to try and dislodge the undecended testicles most of those type of riders have.
Hydrogen power is the future.
June 16th, 2005 at 9:38 am
Alice says:
The guy across the street, a mechanic who always looked after my place and the whole block was just killed on his Harley last week by some idiot driver in San francisco. He was the best guy and was restoring muscle cars you would drool over. RIP David - we miss you.
Live to ride - ride to live!
June 16th, 2005 at 9:51 am
brad says:
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
June 16th, 2005 at 10:04 am
Icecream Soup says:
Actually, statistically speaking, a motorcycle is three times as likely to have a dead rider than a car is. Planes are MUCH safer than cars. Do you know how many cars crash every day? How many planes do you hear about in your neighbourhood… I’m betting not many. I’m willing to put money on planes having fewer mishaps than trains as well, when it comes to hitting wildlife and people on the tracks, not to mention idiots at crossings who can’t wait to get through.
There are two kinds of bikers - those who have crashed, and those who will crash. Whether or not they survive said crashes is up to luck after that, and whether or not they are catapulted into something soft and yeilding. When people ride doubled, the person on the back is usually the one to die because in front collisions they get thrown over the head of the driver… which is how person number two bought it (see below).
I used to ride, and I never liked it much, it was more out of necessity at the time. “Bold or old, not both” is an excellent description of my feelings on the situation. I guess it just depends how much risk you are willing to take with your life over a mode of transportation. There are (or were, respectively) eight riders in my life recently. Two of them are now dead, and ALL of them have had bad crashes, all of them have been hurt and two of them have been hospitalized for extended periods of time, being unable to continue their routine activities for months. Two of the bikers I know use canes - guess why. EVERYONE else I know drives a car, and only ONE of those people has been seriously injured in a crash.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:18 am
john says:
1) Loud pipes don’t save lives, several studies have demonstrated there is no statistical difference in accident rates. Given the sound insulation qualities of many cars today, noise is not going to save you anyway.
Also, ever notice how people can spot a motorcycle cop from a 300 yards, but miss other bikers, the fact that people don’t see you is a perceptive filter, not a matter of the loudness of your bike. My black and white police 1000 wasn’t very loud at all, but people noticed me plenty.
2) When I was a Sheriff’s deputy (motorcycle) I used to cite people ALL THE TIME for excessive noise because of loud pipes, and booming stereos. I have probably written up around 200 bikers for it.
3) In California it is legal for a legally deaf person to operate a motor vehicle, and obtain a drivers license, there are certain hoops that must be jumped through to demonstrate the person is able to safely operate a vehicle that most people don’t have to jump through. People who are blind in one eye, paraplegics, little people, or people who have other severe disabilities that might impair their ability to drive also can drive provided it is demonstrated they can do so safely if necessary with modifications to their cars. This is true in EVERY U.S. State as far as I know.
I know several deaf people who drive. I have encountered many others.
3) Hydrogen is not a cheap energy source to produce, but the point is it might be a viable energy store for light vehicles, cheap gasoline is going to go away one day, and fuel cells, and hydrogen conversions for IC engines, and other technologies will give us a means to convert what energy sources are affordable (like nuclear, and others) into a portable fuel with a high energy to weight ratio. If we don’t start working on it now, we are going to wish we had when the oil wars start.
4) I would love a near silent bike. But I need more than 8 horses, I want at least 60. Otherwise I will stick with my current ride.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:31 am
Kyle says:
Comment by Amelie Poulin
“Spoken like a truly ignorant loud-pipe ‘enthusiast’, Kyle. one cannot choose to believe in facts. they are what they are. you can choose to ignore facts and make the rest of us suffer with loud rib-shaking motorcycles, or you can be a grown-up libertarian and realize that you are infringing on my right to peace and quiet.”
-
I don’t consider myself a “loud pipe enthusiast”, more so a realist. And once you come to the realization that the sensation of sound plays as much apart of a warning mechanism as vision does, you will understand the dilemma of the less visible cycles. Facts are negligible anyway, if you’ve ever contemplated the philosophical ideology of facts, it takes only one inconsistency to dismiss it. Therefore whatever your incoherent ramble was aiming to prove (certainly nothing factual), with emotionally drawn fragments of ideas, I’m dismissing it as garbage- it proves nothing but your narrow view and rejection of others.
If anyone is interested in reading about economy of hydrogen or peak oil, http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html#anchor_86 gives a few opposing views to the economy of hydrogen.
Comment by Haizum
Riding in a used compact car the same price as a motorcycle would “save more lives” than loud pipes.
The logic you ‘loud pipe’ people are using is like saying “I ran over an entire family, but I gave 2 of them mouth to mouth and saved them.”
-
This is the reason why rationality should be considered when posting anything. There is no justification here for the claim of cars saving more lives, nor is there any indication of what you meant other than a crude illustration (of which you would have to explain). Where you should have compared to the loud pipe concept to “I ran over an entire family, but I failed to see (sensory information) if there was a family there before I ran them over.”
If there weren’t people in such a hurry or distracted with ridiculous material things inside their box to realize there are others around them on the road, others with just as much humanity as them, there wouldn’t be such bigotry toward motorcyclists or anyone else for that matter. Ignorance is saying “they deserve to get hit,” or “Loudness makes me want to ram them into a guardrail.” Perhaps for just one day you should experience fully that there is but a few inches between you and the 70mph moving concrete beneath you, and you should be thankful you have the senses you do to avoid careless mistakes, and hope to refine them so that others don’t have to make up for your deprivation.
Also, Haizum, your profound logic that “It is always going to be far less safe to use a motorcyle rather than even the smallest car,” I would disagree with.
Motorcycles have better maneuverability, acceleration, and braking. They can swerve out of the way of objects a car wouldn’t dream of attempting, can stop in half the distance a car can. And if need be to get out a situation, can accelerate through it. The word Always is cause for much dispute, and I think you have no justification for using it. Perhaps you meant “if there weren’t so many careless drivers in the world, motorcyclists might get recognition for their safety instead of the conventional knowledge that propagates from that denial.”
June 16th, 2005 at 10:35 am
Haizum says:
“Also, Haizum, your profound logic that “It is always going to be far less safe to use a motorcyle rather than even the smallest car,” I would disagree with.”
Well, you’re wrong.
Look at the statistics.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:42 am
Gibson says:
There are obviously two camps here (hydrogen or not) bike lovers and bike haters. The bike lovers are also split between the lound and “normal” pipes. Very few of us are touching on the TOPIC (what a concept) of hydrogen fueled vehicles.
I saw a bike that kept it’s fuel in the tire rims (military to civilian applications abound). That, perhaps combined with this, would increase the vehicles function even more so.
On the bike issues…for those of you who don’t ride; you have no grounds. you all seem to think that all people who ride a motorcycle do it for some macho reason. some do it for economy, some for convenience, some even for comfort. comment 71 is obviously from someone who’s mommy didn’t let them get one.
Let’s stick to the topic and leave the loud vs not loud pipes issue in the dust (and for the RIDERS to settle up on, not the non riders).
Oh, and as kewl as it would be to get this standardized, let’s remind the tree huggers of something: they’ve been saying that we’re all going to run out of oil for almost half a century now…can’t they get a new mantra?
And to the people somehow defending themselves by saying they have $500 cars and $5000 stereos…YOU guys seem to get more attention than bikers do…and thankfully, it’s all bad. Tell me, has anyone ever just said “oh take me” because you had your stereo up so loud? Does it work? How can you sue a gun company for selling you a gun that some homie steals and then shoots someone with, but you can’t sue Best Buy or Sound Playground for selling morons toys with big speakers?
At least you never hear a bike going by with enough stereo power to put on a concert.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:45 am
Haizum says:
BTW, I’m not anti-motorcycle. I’d actually like to buy one at some point. And I’ll admit, I’d probably like to have it make some sort of engine noise just for the marginal safety benefits…marginal.
Having said that, I would only use my motorcycle in fair weather conditions ONLY because I know (via statistics) that it is one of the most dangerous ways to commute. I’m just going to assume that we are all using 2 and 4 wheel vehicles to commute (get somewhere).
June 16th, 2005 at 10:47 am
Kyle says:
Haizum: “Look at the statistics.”
Where?
And, that is the most ambiguous statement I’ve heard today, where in fact the smallest car is no larger than a motorcycle, and is far more dangerous for the fact it doens’t have the maneuverability or acceleration of a bike.
Besides this logical standpoint, I think what you meant to say but lacked the rhetoric to write, was that the odds of living through an accident if riding on a motorcycle is less than that of a car, not that one is safer than the other, which is to debate- for every situation depends on the person and the envoronment to which he or she is in.
You may say a car is safe because it has I beams in the doors to stop you from being hit by the pole you ran into, where I would say that skill and ability to drive plays more a part in safety.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:50 am
Gibson says:
Hazium, you could also, I don’t know…..RIDE SAFELY? why is the rest of the world responsible for your safety? when you decide to ride a bike, perhaps you’ll learn that YOUR safety is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. You can’t count on “marginal” sounds to save you every time. people ride with cell phones to their heads, radios on and screaming kids…so assume that no matter how loud (or not loud) your pipes are, you’re still responsible for your safety. hence the helmet, gloves, maintainance and other proper gear.
It’s no more dangerous than anything other way to commute…the most dangerous way to commute is on roads occupied by anyone else…hence, the point is moot.
take care of yourselves out there people, and don’t make driving so “personal”. someone cuts you off, just hope you get to watch them wrap around a tree later, but let it go.
That alone would help immensely.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:51 am
Stan says:
I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 40 years. Loud pipes DO NOT save lives. They make enemies.
That ass who has been riding 10 years who said “The rookies here that do not understand this should not be discussing this….” needs to grow up.
Don’t let stereotypes get the best of you.
I’ve owned Harleys as well as Brit and Jap bikes. The most troublesome bike is a Harley. The best, most comfortable and most reliable are Jap bikes. Yamahas and Hondas and Kawasakis are all around the best thing that ever happened to motorcycles.
The issue here is a hydrogen-powered vehicle. This is not a motorcycle for those who want a MOTORCYCLE, but something for someone who wants simple (?) around town transportation.
By the way, ‘defensive driving’ is what saves lives.
Also, if you want to talk safety issues, it’s more likely that your car is more dangerous than any of my bikes (that I ride). My bike is more likely to be better maintained that your cage. I’ve got better rubber on the ground, better brakes and all around better performance. I can get out of a tight spot a lot easier than any car. I ride defensively.
Just riding on a bike in traffic makes one a better rider, and then a better (car) driver.
Anyone who has ever ridden a small motorcycle or a scooter or a Vespa type of thing knows that this is one of the better tools to learn defensive driving.
Noise is offensive. Drive/ride offensively and you won’t last long.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:55 am
Shawn B says:
Considering that most motorcyclist can be seen before being heard (closed windows, radios, children yapping) from a driver of a car or truck, I would encourage the “Loud Saves LIves’ Crowd to also join the “Visible Saves Lives” Group and train in their black leathers for DayGlow Pink, Attach Dune-Bugg Flags, and install Plow Truck Flashers on their helmets.
June 16th, 2005 at 11:31 am
No Not Again! says:
Load Pipes Save Lives - NOT!
New hydrogen-powered motorcycles are starting to appear on the scene. They are quiet, very quiet. I have always found overly-load exhause pipes annoying, and I found another article supporting this….
June 16th, 2005 at 11:36 am
Changing LINKS says:
Comment by Gibson — June 16, 2005 @ 10:45 am
I saw a bike that kept it’s fuel in the tire rims (military to civilian applications abound). That, perhaps combined with this, would increase the vehicles function even more so.
>>> WHAT?! Where? If you can, please post a link. The concept sounds insane (if not impossible) to me: If the wheels spin, how do you get the fuel to the engine without leakage (unless then engine too is on the wheel)? I’m not saying, “It does exist”, I’m just wanting to SEE.
Comment by john — June 16, 2005 @ 10:31 am
1) Loud pipes don’t save lives, several studies have demonstrated there is no statistical difference in accident rates.
>>> Really? I have seen this same argument take place on more than 3 websites. None of the anti-loud-pipes people (including the author who did “research” in the link posted above) cite these “studies.” Perhaps they don’t exist? Maybe I should try it now: “Loud pipes DO save lives, several studies have demonstrated there is no statistical difference in accident rates.” Nah, making up such statements just doesn’t feel right . . . because it isn’t.
Comment by Haizum — June 16, 2005 @ 10:47 am
I’m not anti-motorcycle. I’d actually like to buy one at some point.
>>> Um. On behalf of the cycling community, (based on your posted statements) we think it best if you forego motorcycling. We’re scared enough with you in a car . . . even as a passenger.
Comment by Gibson — June 16, 2005 @ 10:51 am
You can’t count on “marginal” sounds to save you every time.
>>> The reason he used “marginal” was to specify “rarely.” Ironically, you changed this to mean “ALWAYS.” No one here will say that loud pipes save lives every time - if they did, no Harley’s would be in accidents. Instead, we’re saying that “it is acceptable if loud pipes save the rider ONCE” Once is enough.
June 16th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Changing LINKS says:
Many of you keep posting “use visibility, not sound” It’s wrong.
It’s best to use BOTH visibility AND sound, along with defensive driving AND other safety measures. Use of one tactic does not override the need to use another.
June 16th, 2005 at 11:49 am
Kyle says:
It’s not just about being seen or heard as independants. many people have bad depth perception, from there not being many ques for a motorcycle to show it’s impeding closeness. I’ve seen many people attempt to pull Direcly in front of me (and have ocasionaly) because they interpreted me as not traveling at the speed I was. When the factor of sound is added, that much more is refined in the awareness of the velocity of the aproaching bike.
June 16th, 2005 at 11:50 am
Alice says:
/insert roar over biker din!
Should I cover the loud vs. defensive driving here as a real article or is the issue best left for another site?
June 16th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Clint says:
Wow. This loud-pipes debate is pretty ridiculous. As both a cager and a biker, I know first-hand that I’ve heard bikes before seeing them, and that has given me valuable positional information to avoid hitting them.
HOWEVER, this debate is pretty far off-topic, so I’ll return to the alternative energy theme. Anyone who thinks hydrogen is a viable short-term solution needs to look at the energy conversion issues. Hydrogen is a net energy LOSER, not gainer - at this point, it’s nothing more than a fancy battery. Yes, we *might* find the magic solution and get H2 from the environment in an energy-gaining fashion, but that’s not the case right now.
Biodiesel, on the other hand, is a net energy GAINER, meaning if you add up all the energy (save for the sun) that goes into producing it, you get more out than you put in.
As for a bike that runs on biodiesel, check this out:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/13/biodiesel-motorcycles/
Now THAT’S a viable alternative energy solution.
June 16th, 2005 at 12:44 pm
Changing LINKS says:
Comment by Alice:
Should I cover the loud vs. defensive driving here as a real article or is the issue best left for another site?
It’s best left for another site.
It’s not “sound VS. defensive driving.” Change “VS.” to “AND.”
On the topic of the article above, I think the problems motorcyclists have with THIS hydrogen cycle is that it removes THREE things we use for safety: speed, sound, and weight
Perhaps this cycle could be marketed as a “scooter.”
Then, it will not have to overcome the same objections.
June 16th, 2005 at 12:44 pm
monkton says:
Loud pipes increase your visibility. Yes, motorcycles are less safe than cars, because they offer less (no) protection in an accident, and because they are much less visible than cars. Sure, you will see a motorcycle in your mirror before you hear it - if you happen to be looking in your mirror. The majority of accidents are caused by dingbats who aren’t paying attention, people who are unaware of their surroundings. Those people aren’t going to see the motorcycle, because they aren’t paying attention, while they may see a car because it takes up a much larger field of view, and it doesn’t fit as easily in a blind spot. Motorcycles, on the other hand, are much less visible on the road and on a crowded road are constantly in peoples’ blind spots. If loud pipes alerts even one moron that you’re there just before he/she makes a moron move on the road, then it’s saved a life. Yes, loud motorcycles are annoying as hell, too.
Back on topic, though - this bike would be cool for offroad or country riding, but not for highway riding. yes, there’s a need for alternative energy sources. no, at this point hydrogen probably isn’t any less polluting than gasoline, but as we develop better and more efficient ways to manufacture hydrogen, then perhaps it will become moreso.
June 16th, 2005 at 1:06 pm
kimo says:
If only I could use all of this “hot air” as fuel in my motorhome.
I would be able to drive cross country for nothing!
BTW: I have driven a motorcycle for over 10 yrs. Yes, I know how to drive and operate one in snowy conditions. There are far more crazy drivers out there talking on cell phones, doing their nails, and not bothering to pay attention than any cyclist.
June 16th, 2005 at 1:08 pm
Joe says:
All this stuff about sound playing a critical part in driving is, in my experience, hogwash. I drive a ‘94 Camry wagon. It has a roof rack and a badly designed muffler. It’s on its third engine and its second transmission and the parts don’t work together perfectly. Not to mention that the roads here in New Jersey are of universally low-quality paving and design. Needless to say, it’s a loud ride - inside the car, to say nothing of outside.
In addition to that, I keep the radio on when I drive. And while my hearing is sensitive, in the sense of gain, it’s not great at signal-to-noise filtering.
Generally, if a car is pulling up alongside mine at 40+ mph, I cannot hear it. I won’t hear another vehicle at all, for that matter, unless it’s in worse shape than mine (or develops massively more power than my 160 HP shopping cart). That’s why I constantly scan my mirrors and the parts of my rear arc not covered by them.
If I were to use my hearing as a resource for watching the road around my car, I would have been in many more accidents than I have been. And I have a clean license. Why is that? Because I rely on my /eyes/, and because I know precisely how large my car is, and what it can and cannot do.
That’s the real issue in road safety - the competence of drivers, not whether or not they can hear you coming. Making your bike super-loud is going to do one thing, and one thing only: make people /want/ to hit you.
June 16th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
Tony says:
There’s something everyone seems to be missing, amid all the “I hate you”/”I hate you right back” stuff…
If this little machine is the harbinger of things to come on two wheels, can a 4-wheel vehicle of the same type be far behind?
When that happens, will the Corvette/AMG/Carerra crowd go for each others’ throats the same way everyone here has?
Tony
ZX-9r
35 years riding (and has no great love for obnoxiously loud pipes)
June 16th, 2005 at 1:22 pm
Rob says:
Hey, if ONE person hears me on my bike and stops me from getting run over, then thats one time that loud pipes have saved my life. My GSXR 750 can be heard from two or three blocks if I am riding hard… Not everyone has a sh1tty station wagon, and not everyone listens to Rammstein/Techno at 150db in thier Mustang/Civics. I’m more concerned about the woman putting on makup, the fat man eating a cheese burger, or the stock broker. Using the “I could have my stereo on” line of reasoning, you could say that having a headlight on doesn’t help save lives because I might be changing the radio station. So don’t have your headlight on!
There haven’t been any controlled studies of the topic, so both sides purporting facts are full of it. But hey, If I inconvienience someone for the 4 seconds I am going buy so that I MIGHT not get my legs cut off by a left turning driver, so be it. I’m sorry if I care more about my life then your rerun of Will and Grace.
As far as this topic goes.. sweet. New promising technology.
June 16th, 2005 at 1:46 pm
Steve says:
Apples and oranges is what you’re arguing over. Face this “motorcycle” is a scooter and how many scooters have a pipe loud enough to alert anyone but a pedestrian it’s coming.
As for the discussion if hydrogen is a viable fuel the same arguments were made during the introduction of the automobile. Fuel for early automobiles was purchased at the pharmacy for $.60 a gallon, 60 years later I remember that a gallon of gas was only $.25 per gallon. So if the same model is applied to Hydrogen the cost will drop dramatically at the technology improves. Does anyone use alfalfa as transportation fuel anymore?
June 16th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Rob says:
My 1996 Honda VFR750 gets about 250 miles on a 5 gallon tank. And it costs me about 9-10 bux to fill up.
I am all for alternative energy as long as it can still offer simular power as the gas/ignition engine.
When I am riding my bike in heavy DC traffic and I kick up the rpm’s to about 9k and my exhaust a rumbling people hear it. How much safer does it make me percentage wise, I dunno, but in my experience people will look over and see me.
My pipe also isn’t very loud at low RPM/cruising speed and I don’t act like an ass.
So when you tell me that people don’t hear me on my bike if I crank up the volume I can tell you that in my experience thats not correct. And I usually don’t crack up the volume unless the person is YACKING on their cell phone and needs someone to let them know that there are other ppl on the road.
June 16th, 2005 at 2:15 pm
Timmy says:
About loud pipes:
- Deaf people can get a drivers license and legally drive in the United States
- I was a bicyclist for years and had very few incidents with drivers
About this motorcycle, it is a motorcycle if the NTSB says it is, I think it is cool as hell. Hydrogen is the way to go and there are other ways of getting H2 without fossil fuels.
June 16th, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Mark says:
I love the moron who left number 18, “if loud pipes save lives, why isn’t there an insurance discount for them”
I guess for the same reason I don’t get a discount for seatbelts, airbags, and new brakes and tires.
Loud pipes are sometimes annoying, but they help people spot you.
I ride with my high beams on 24/7, piss people off? YES! Meke them notice you? YES.
Most motorcycle accidents with cars happen because the cycle wasn’t noticed.
June 16th, 2005 at 2:33 pm
Changing LINKS says:
Comment by Joe — June 16, 2005 @ 1:11 pm
I drive a ‘94 Camry wagon. It has a roof rack and a badly designed muffler.
Joe, the fact that you are driving an unsafe piece of junk, doesn’t mean everyone is. With your setup, you have no credibility to offer insight on what drivers should or shouldn’t do. If your car is too loud to hear emergency vehicles, trucks, horns and motorcycles, YOU are part of the problem.
Nonetheless, my bet is that you could still hear an old Harley pull up beside you. Some (like posts above mention) are so loud you can “feel” the pulsations of sound.
Oh. And to please the “off-topic” people: Um, “hydrogen scooter”
June 16th, 2005 at 2:55 pm
monkton says:
that’s retarded - driving with your high beams on. that goes beyond safety and blinds people.
June 16th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
Mike Deakins says:
I live in South Dakota and suffer through every jerk who can muster up a down payment on a Harley and those loud as can be pipes. I welcome a cool (none crotch rocket) bike that makes no noise and is good for the enviroment.
June 16th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
SneakyPete says:
“Loud pipes save lives”.
I don’t buy this at all. If so, why don’t all those loud pipe guys wear orange vests, and go anywhere other than bar to bar?
They do it for attention, plain and simple.
June 16th, 2005 at 3:38 pm
Alice says:
OK, can someone on this thread be totally honest for me: were loud sounds installed to specifically save lives or to announce that a big biker was coming by (regardless if the lives part was a byproduct). I had a friend who could tell the sounds of a Harley a mile away. But is making noise just to say “big bike” or Big Harley’ the same thng as saying “I’ll buy a car with airbags?
Byproduct or added bonus I get, but what was the TRUE intention of the roar?
June 16th, 2005 at 3:47 pm
A different Kyle says:
Wow…these posts really took a nose dive. I dont imagine anyone here really wants to talk about these hydrogen bicycles do they?
June 16th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
David says:
i can’t help but chime in on this one …
the evidence for and against loud bikes seems to me to be irrelevant because all studies can’t take into account drivers of other vehicles.
some guy in an suv talking on his cellphone isn’t going to be listening for a bike. some kid with enough bass to blow out windows isn’t going to hear a bike. two old women talking about knitting aren’t going to hear a bike.
the problem isn’t the sound, the problem is bad driving. people drive with zero awarenesss of what’s going on around them.
and you all know it’s true!
i’ve been riding for 10 years and i’ve never had an accident *touch wood* … i wouldn’t rely on noise to save my life, but if drivers were actively driving, so that they were watching and listening and *DRIVING SAFELY* then bike noise would help a lot.
harleys and dirt bikes are just noisy pieces of crap. a good bike with a reasonable pipe should be enough to alert drivers.
the problem is 90% of drivers aren’t alert. if they hit a bike, they know who’ll win!
on topic - someone said earlier that hydrogen would be great for dirt and trail bikes. that’s a great idea. keep the forests and beaches quiet.
June 16th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
Gregor says:
I’ve already applied for a patent on the only accessory anyone riding one of these will need to generate ‘exhaust noise’ to keep them safe.
Without wanting to give too much away, the basic kit will contain:
1 x playing card (customisable through 52 different designs)
1 x clothes peg (available in a range of colours)
full recommended retail pricing on the ‘Noise Kit’ is yet to be finalised…
June 16th, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Jim Fry says:
Actually, deaf people can legally drive. In fact I have one employed by me as a courier. He drives “professionally” about 65,000 miles a year.
June 16th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Brad says:
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe. It is not the most abundant element on earth- it is the third most abundant. The most abundant element on earth is oxygen, followed by silicon, and then hydrogen.
Regardless of whether hydrogen is more (or less) polluting than gasoline is somewhat beside the point. The hydrogen economy hasn’t even begun to be developed yet. We have well over a century of development using fossil fuels as an energy source. While hydrogen fuel cell is actually older than that of the internal combustion engine, it’s developement was largely abandoned in favour of the internal combustion engine almost as soon as the internal combustion engine was first developed.
This is an interesting application of new technology. The longer engineers and scientists have to play with this new and interesting technology, the better we will become at harnessing it and using it to reduce pollution.
June 16th, 2005 at 8:12 pm
chuck says:
I think this is a great idea. Not practical, not a viable competitor, but a great idea anyway. It MIGHT compete as an alternative to the scooter crowd.
Something interesting to note, if no one noticed it; these are mountain bike parts on that bike. Hope Mono6ti (6-pot disc brakes), Marzocchi Shiver fork, Hookworm tires, and some standard-looking downhill rims. Who cares? Well, I’m not convinced parts designed for a 40-50lb. mountain bike are durable enough to stand up to forces of what will no doubt be a 100+lb bike.
Cool idea anyway. Always need pioneers to move the technology farther.
You people arguing about loud pipes need to go discuss this on a loud pipes article, several of which were linked.
June 16th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
mr. smartypants says:
Has anyone noticed anything in the news about certain real cool processes whereby special microbes eat toxic nastiness and produce hydrogen? Fact is, there is more money to be made in “problems” rather than solutions. I believe that the more people get conned into buying obsolete or ineffecient crap- the happier the idiots that are running the global economy into the ground are. Also, the more of the third worlds resources get sucked into this country’s endless hunger, the happier these fools are for various reasons. I blame the powers that be for being techno-bogarts and running everything into the ground. Also, I love loud music. I love motorcycles. I love to go fast. I also tend to be reasonable about these things most of the time. I hope the whole world blows up soon because humans in general are driven by fear which is insecurity which is an overactive survival instinct which drives all non evolved top of the food chain human animals to act like idiots. How’s about we invent a future that doesn’t suck because people suck. I don’t hate anybody, I’m just happier when they are not around. New technology, loud versus quiet transportation or entertainment, people that can’t drive might kill you… blah, blah,blah.
June 17th, 2005 at 12:40 am
Nick says:
I ride a motorcycle regularly, and also a car, and also a bicycle. My motorcycle is a quiet Japanese sport bike with a factory muffler. I really hate loud Harleys. Loud pipes just piss people off. The only thing that will save your life is being a skillful and defensive driver. In 90% of accidents with motorcycles, the motorcyclist did not take a training course but was either self-taught or taught by a friend. Additionally, most motorcycle accidents are not caused by cars, but by motorcyclists losing control of their motorcycles.
Taking a training course, being alert, and having a good dose of car driving experience will save your life - not loud pipes. These days, the most endangered segment of the motorcyclist population is that of the 40-50 year-old male who used to ride, and is jumping on a big loud cruiser without proper training. Loud pipes will not help these people avoid losing control of their motorcycles, and loud pipes will not make them more alert to their surroundings.
June 17th, 2005 at 12:47 am
Greg says:
Ever noticed the crowd who loves the ‘loud pipes’ slogan the most is the same one that rides thier loud bikes with the least (if any) helmet protection?
BTW, whose lives are the ‘loud pipers’ trying to save when they can’t hear squat because of thier own loud pipes?
June 17th, 2005 at 1:23 am
jim says:
this loud pipes is a load of bullshit. why have manufacturers of cars been forever trying to make them quieter. This is because you dont listen for cars when your doing 70 on the motorway, you look for them. If all this ‘loud pipes’ was the case then everyone would have cars that beeped all the time and all these little cars claiming to be safe would not go to great lengths to keep them quiet, they’d soup em up so you got as much noise as possible. If you think of how modern manufacturing has progressed you’ll see it is towards a quieter car, and cars have a lower death rate. If you’re so concerned with your own safety, wear a fluorescent top everytime you go out, I’m sure you would but its probably ‘not as cool’ as ‘loud pipes’
June 17th, 2005 at 5:01 am
Terry says:
Mark, Post 100:
Airbags do get you a discount, at least everywhere in the U.S. that I’ve lived. Your tires are brakes are required to be within spec purely for operability of the vehicle. They are not there as a safety measure. Seatbelts? I dunno. Maybe because they’ve been around for so long, and I think they’re required in every state (could be wrong about that).
Driving with your lights on bright 24/7 is, IMO, wrong. It’s bad enough in my car, but when riding and another bike is behind me at night pulling that stunt, it cuts waaaay into your margin of safety because I’m both distracted and angry.
…regarding the comments about the 94 Camry Wagon…
I don’t think his car is a POS, I’m guessing it’s just worn to the point that things rattle, and also that lots of cars pass on a lot of road noise. Tires can make a huge difference in that last repect.
My last car, a Bonneville, is known for being a quiet ride. Add just the AC on high to that, and on the highway, I’m going to notice you in my mirrors before I hear you. Inside urban areas, I might hear, but add to both scenarios that I, like most people, listen to the radio while driving, and the point is moot. I will not hear you unless you’re sitting right next to me.
My current car is a ‘04 Nissan SpecV(new enough to not be ‘junk I hope) and once again, the chances of me hearing you outside of stop and go traffic is maybe 1% of the time.
Almost everytime I hear loud bikes, it’s when I’m outside in my yard or at a park. Being a rider myself, I usually glance up to see the bike, and surprse surprise, it’s not a rider fully clad in safety gear and riding civilly. For the cruisers, its almost always an unzipped leather vest and a beanie helmet and maybe fingerless gloves. Yep, that’s the typical best-case scenario for concern with safety. For the sport bikes, in town it’s usually a tshirt and MAYBE jeans and tennis shoes. Bad gear, but at least at low speeds, their pipes are fairly civil. Out on the road, it’s at least sometimes full leathers.
Now logic tells me that if a person were keenly concerned with their safety, they have bright colored safety gear from head to toe (I don’t always do the bright color thing and I don’t own full leather gear). I’ve also noticed that the majority of people that don’t fall into the loud pipe group are very annoyed by them. This includes riders as well as drivers. This leaves pretty much the pro-loud group itself as the only group that likes loud pipes. With that in mind, it can be reasoned that loud pipes do more harm to motorcycling in general by tainting it’s overall image. Afterall, You don’t hear folks outside that circle saying that the loud pipes are so safe! Instead, you hear complaints about loud pipes and unsafe riding practices.
Having been riding for a while now, I know that loud pipes are never going to replace safe riding habits and my own responsibility for my safety on the road. It might help that one time, but being a good rider is a far more reliable safety measure. The overall opinion for the loud pipe group seems to be that if someone hears you, they’ll do the right thing for you as a rider. Sorry, but I don’t have that kind of faith in my fellow man. I find it’s easier to just ride in the middle of the lane to avoid opening doors on busy streets, staying away from the centerline in blind curves, and in the city, I take my time and watch as much of my surroundings as possible. If there is someone turning and I’m unsure of their intentions, I’ll stop and wait on them if I have to. You’ve got to be proactive in protecting yourself…
Sadly, I’m starting to see a few parks etc. that are not bike-friendly. I can take my car, and drive all through the place, but if I go on my nice quiet bike, I have park and walk. That’s what your loud pipes have done for me!
For the record, I ride a nice quiet standard-class Suzuki Bandit S with stock everything. I ride in AT LEAST: a full helmet, gloves, a proper jacket, jeans and boots. The only thing I’ve hit so far is bugs. I like all bikes and maybe one day I’ll meet some of you on the highways. Be safe…
June 17th, 2005 at 5:52 am
Daniel says:
Ignoring the ‘loud pipes’ fracas, allow me to interject:
In the big picture of energy delivery infrastructure:
Hydrogen is NOT an energy source.
It begs repeating, but I’ll spare you. Burning hydrogen(or using it in a fuel cell, or whatever) produces H2O. The hydrogen was obtained by splitting H2O. This splitting process can NEVER require less energy than the fuel cell puts out.
The only thing a hydrogen fuel system does is CENTRALIZE the pollution to where the original energy was obtained. And if we’re talking about a “:hydrogen eceonomy”, then solar/wind are not going to be up to snuff. Think nuclear and/or coal. And lots of it. Hydrogen is merely a means of energy transportation
The real way to end dependance on (foreign) oil was invented by Rudolf Diesel. Before his invention got hijacked by Big Oil, his design was for an engine that could burn vegetable oils. Now there’s a renewable energy source for you…
The only problem is that anyone can make biodiesel for dirt cheap in their own garage (check out freedomfuelamerica.com), thus severing the umbilical cord to large corporate infrastructure - infrastructure that a hydrogen economy would keep us tied to indefinitely.
Hydrogen power is a BIG LIE. The only polution problem it would solve is urban smog… But it would only solve this problem by moving the pollution elsewhere.
June 17th, 2005 at 6:10 am
Eric says:
Hmmm… well I think that folks should consider Hydrogen as an energy storage mechanism. For eaxmple, during the winter, and particullarly during the spring thaw there is more hydro power available from dams than can be used. During the spring many places have an abundance of wind. Tidal energy is cyclic. Landfills and bio-converters produce methane (which can also be used in many fuel cells). None of these renewable energy sources is readily attached to an automobile…(although I will admit I have seen some folks who have attempted the landfill in their backseat).
At 745 watts/hp, transportation may represent an individuals largest daily utilization of energy. Since it takes energy to accelerate mass, the lowest mass vehicle you can get with a good structural safety factor is going to tend towards being the most energy efficient. So heavy batteries are not a great energy storage solution fo a moving abject. However a fuel cell and its fuel have a very high enrgy density per weight and as a result are an attractive means of storing energy.
Although Daniel points out that if you burn fossil fuels to it creates pollution, he misses several points. The first one is that the centralized production of hydrogen from fossil fuels can be done with fuel turbines to drive genrators as opposed a reciprocating engine. Turbines are much more energy efficient and lower polluting. Second, the pollution generated at a stationary plant per pound of fuel consumed is miniscule when compared to an automobile (since you don’t have to move the pollution control eqquipment it can be significantly more complex and effective). Bio-diesel does work and it is not a difficult conversion, but there is not enough waste cooking oil produced on a daily basis to provide energy for a large flee tof bio-diesal vehicles. Also, if you have ever been around one, you might not like the idea of a city full of such vehicles.
The point is that as a fuel storage medium, hydrogen is the best. It is not currently as inexpensive as fossil fuels, but it is getting close. Hydrogen does provide a link between renewable energy sources and moving vehicles. Hydrogen is not hype and from the tone of the folks who say it is, it sounds like it could be the same folks who argued that people don’t need computers at home and that the internet was of no value.
As for loud exhaust on motorcycles it’s safer, I don’t ride a bike on the street, but I am more likely to notice a loud one (and look again if I don’t see it). I also feel that the loud exhaust is rude and obtrusive particularly at 3am. There is a point where given other options, there is a line between safety and selfishness, but that is a personal choice.
Finally, as for the orignial topic. This is a terrific advancement. As with any technology, the real development doesn’t occur until it goes to market. For its intended uses, this seems to be a great product.
June 17th, 2005 at 8:33 am
bill keiser says:
> “HYDROGEN. It is the most abundant substance in our world, . . .”
maybe so, but hydrogen isn’t an energy source, it is merely a means of storing it. it takes some other source of electricity to electrolyze it and raise it’s energy level up and more energy to compress it for storage.
bk
June 17th, 2005 at 8:46 am
jim says:
thats precisely the point, we’re not changing the overall balance of substances in the atmosphere and so polluting it. Oil is the same as hydrogen, except it gained all the energy within it over afew thousand or million years and we put the energy into the hydrogen by splitting it from water and doing this in only afew hours not years. So one solar panel on your roof continually electrolising water will produce enough energy for say a one hour car ride. Its the fact that they hydrogen is just a way to store the energy that is collected over a period of time by whatever means (nuclear, solar, semi-renewable, or wind) and release it quickly without making too much pollution.
June 17th, 2005 at 10:29 am
Brian says:
There is a differance between making enough noise to be heard and making so much noise that it wakes you up from 6 blocks away.
They have pipes out there that are loud(so that you are a “known entity” on the road), but no so obnoxious that it wakes my kids up from a deep slumber at 2am when someone is driving 3-6 blocks away. That is simply a nuisance. That is why there are laws prohibiting them.(Just like “Jake Brakes” on semi trucks in residential areas)
As to the marketing these as Motorcycles…I can totally see the logic. I am 6′4″ and 275 I cannot ride a normal scooter(unless you count riding at less than 20 mph riding). These things will never replace a regular motorcycle, but if you want cheap transportation to and from work…and also want to help the enviroment…I’d be all for it. How many of you think of trip to and from work everyday as a “Pleasure Drive” anyway???
June 17th, 2005 at 11:20 am
Eric says:
Actually the problem with fossil fules is the carbon content, so despite their high hydrogen content they are still a polluting fuel. Uncombusted carbon leaves soot, fully combusted carbon yields CO2 is a greenhouse gas that promotes global warming. Burning fossil fuels releases sequestered carbon into the atmosphere whereas oxidizing hydrogen in a fuel cell only releases water vapor.
June 17th, 2005 at 11:20 am
Mikey says:
I’m sorry, hydrogen is just not a viable fuel for motorcycles. You have to carry a lot of it in a highly pressurized containment system and to put it bluntly -that- sucks. Even those companies that used LNG (propane or natural gas) have switched over to standard fuels (gas or diesel) because the weight gain from the storage cylinders was a performance drain.
The ONE fuel that we do have however, is diesel. Check this link:
http://www.peace65.freeserve.co.uk/Pictures/royalenfield.htm
These are DIESEL bikes, Alice. Theres enough of them to get me excited. Ohhhhhh,ohhhh,yessssss.
These are not prototypes, these are functional rides that the owners enjoy using. Some of them even have rather outlandish mileage claims of plus 1500 km’s on 25 liters of fuel. (that equals approx 800-900 miles on approx 6.5 gallons of fuel.)
Thats about 125 miles per gallon.
Granted, thats at 35 to 45 mile per hour as a top speed…..
but who cares? How’d you like to do a fillup once a month instead of once a week?
June 17th, 2005 at 12:56 pm
xaustinx says:
This is in direct response to Kyles comment about the energy required to create a molecule of hydrogen.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65936,00.html
this is just one articile covering one specfic method, now, realize there’s 1.2 billion being spent to address the problem of cheap hydrogen generation in the US alone. I’ve read of method as passive as using a genetically modified strain of algae that has a hydrogen output 3-10x that of normal algae, i.e. free hyrdogen production… what’s different about nearly all of the projects that seek to find cheap hydrogen production as opposed to present methods to recover crude oil is that the hydrogen production projects involve a virtually endless renewable original source…as opposed to a finite pool of black goo miles below the earth’s surface. the systems they’re devising almost depict a future with anyone that has a house, can have all the hydrogen they want for next to nothing.
It rather sad to see someone rank on a new promising technology because they don’t understand it… Ever wonder what fuel was in primary use before Crude Oil, and how hard those people fought to say “it’s too expensive to refine” or “there’s only 3 known sources of it in the world…”
My advice is to read a little more, respond like a girl (i.e. emotionally) a little less.
June 17th, 2005 at 3:19 pm
Matt says:
Sheesh, I mean did anyone actually read that article. All I’m seeing is the “Hey Brah, my Wicked Sick R1 is still faster” crap. They are around town or trail commuters. Think trail bikes that don’t pollute.
June 17th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Terremoto says:
Edmonton Serial Killer, Animal Cruelty, Belinda Bill, Hydrogen Powered Motorcyle
Hand Picked Headline News - Served Fresh Daily -
Crime ::Hunt On For Edmonton Serial Killer
$100,000 reward if you finger the culprit!
Strange ::Two PETA Employees Charged With Cruelty to Animals
June 17th, 2005 at 6:59 pm
MAKE: Blog says:
Hydrogen-Powered Motorcycles Just Around the Corner
While attention has been focused on developing pollution-free hydrogen-powered cars, Intelligent Energy and some others have turned instead to two-wheeled transportation. The firm, which is relocating to Los Angeles from London, says the motorcycle…
June 18th, 2005 at 12:14 am
jim says:
thats still rubbish milage. A small car can do nearly 50 and that takes 5 ppl. Your bike with one person will do maybe 150
Bikes arent as efficient as they could be. Btw. the big performance advantage of hydrogen is that its energy per kg is enormous compared with that of diesel, petrol or almost any other fuel. Thats part of the reason these bikes can be very economic. One mole of hydrogen weighs 2g. One mole of petrol or something similar will weight something like 100g. granted theres an energy difference, but it still shows how lighter, more compact fuels can definately prove to be an advantage, especially when they’re non-pollutant
June 18th, 2005 at 11:01 am
Markcuda says:
All of you dip shits can ride your pooper scooters.
Ya, lets see if this trash catches on.LOLOLOLOLOLO
June 18th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
Bruno says:
Yeah maybe loud pipes do save lives especially when we hear you fuckers gas it at 80mph a busy city street. Frankly, you would not need loud pipes if you all drove responsibily. And frankly travelling at low speed with loud pipes is noise polution since you should be able to control and break you bike safely at that low city speeds.
But even at those high speeds, by the time i turn around to see where that dam noise is coming from i would have probably been hit by you morons.
So it ain’t loud pipes save lives. Its responsible driving that does. Morons.
June 18th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
Loud Pipes says:
Some times when I’m on the road and I’m feeling a little sleepy, I like to whip it out and give it a flogging. Cuffing the carrot is the only way to go when your bored. I even crack a few off at work into the coffee machine. Helps the day go bye when I know people are having hot frothy coffees on me. Also sometimes when the news comes on I like to jag myself in the butthole with a cucumber.
Hope this helps
June 19th, 2005 at 11:54 pm
Lockergnome's Tech News Watch says:
This Motorocycle Isnt Just Diesel-Powered - Its Biodiesel-Powered
After all the hoopla over the first Hydrogen fuel cell motorcycle, I started wondering about other alternatives. This weekend, we tracked down the first viable and fast electric superbike, and today, heres a guy who converted a diesel motorcycle to bi…
June 20th, 2005 at 12:23 pm
Kyle says:
oh, well… genetically modified organisms- why didn’t you say so. Even more opposed.
June 20th, 2005 at 7:20 pm
Paul says:
First of all I would like to say that all of us that ride motorcycles save
more gas than all of you that drive SUV’s, Trucks and even some somaller cars. as for Drews comment about its aginst the law for deaf peaple to drive is crap. My mother-in-law has been deaf all her life and she has been driving for over 30 years. As for load pipes well that’s up to the rider
and not anyone else. If you don’t want to hear it’s tuff its our rights too
if we want to pay for them.
June 22nd, 2005 at 9:22 am
Matt says:
Y’know.. maybe loud pipes save lives, maybe they don’t. I know if you’re gonna have a stupidly loud stereo in your tin box and turn it up to max all the time you won’t even hear sirens, but it may surprise you to know that the majority of people don’t do that. It’s also people who say things like “loud pipes make me want to run bikers down” that make bikers do everything they can to be seen and heard on the road. All I know is that all the arguments I’ve heard AGAINST loud pipes are coming from people who don’t ride.
Either way, this was about a hydrogen powered bike. Maybe it’s not that cost effective compared to today’s prices, but in 15 years when gas is $25/gallon because it’s getting rare, $3/100 miles is gonna sound pretty damn good, and I’ll bet they’ll have improved the technology a whole lot in that 15 years.
July 12th, 2005 at 5:18 am
Geoff Martin says:
Eric seems to have got the point & Matt here is able to see past the end of his nose into a oil-free future… so why the hell are we still going on about loud-pipes?! This is supposed to be a discussion on hydrogen technology, it’s benefits &, quite possibly, the oil-alternative downfalls. Get a grip guys (that guy, Loud-Pipes is excused)!!
July 15th, 2005 at 1:10 pm
ChangingLINKS says:
It never fails to happen. A guy like Geoff Martin writes a post, not about the subject, but to lecture people about not writing about the subject.
This thread is about the bike. THE BIKE does not have loud pipes. Therefore, discussing things related to the bike (color, fuel, speed, quiet pipes) is ON TOPIC.
People discussing loud pipes are discussing an attribute of the bike. Oddly, Geoff Martin just wants to focus on a different attribute. Both attributes can be discussed here.
If this thread was meant to be about future fuel, then the original poster need not have included the bike at all.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:37 am
Boys Wear Pants, Men Wear Trousers says:
Hydrogen-Powered Cars Are Almost Here
Story Link
Hat tip to Fark.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:15 pm
Jackie says:
Man, there are some obnoxious people here. Instead of talking about the merits and drawbacks of a hydrogen powered motorcycle, it’s turned into a “lets bash motorcycles” thread. Yikes. Don’t like em? Don’t ride ‘em.
I ride an import cruiser and my pipes are not particularly loud. What’s loud is my one neighbor’s barking, yapping mutt he leaves chained up all night and my other neighbor’s car alarm that goes off at all hours because he has it set incorrectly. In other words, we are ALL PESTS to somebody at some time or another!
So…just a word to the nasty biker haters out there- I am a female biker, but I am not a fat hairy broad with a moustache (as at least one idiot imagined), and if any of you EVER think to run me off the road (as several have fantasized about doing here to any “displeasing” biker) know that many of us pack more iron than you might suppose…and are prepared to use it if necessary. You run me off the road, you are trying to KILL ME and I WILL defend myself.
It would be safer for all involved if you just got the tag number of the “offender” and called the cops.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:23 pm
Bill King says:
any idiot that really thinks loud pipes save lives needs the name of a good shrink. sure we hear them from behind but then I can see them so who needs it besides your egos. REAL motorcyclist need the ride not just to be seen..you watch to many old hells angels movies.!!
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TAC says:
I see alot of stuff on loud pipes on here. What about the people that can’t seem to drive without the cell phone at thier ear. I test ride bikes as part of my job and I have had more close calls with the people on the cell phone than anything else.
February 15th, 2006 at 11:57 am
TAC says:
I think the hydro bikes are a good idea for the simple fact that they are better for the environment. I would like one of those bikes.
February 15th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
G. says:
This is a discussion of Hydrogen powered bikes, not opinions on loud pipes. Right. I like the concept, It needs time to develop, the first car had 1.5hp, things take time to develop. The real issue at the moment is isolating and storing hydrogen without a net loss. If and when that is mastered, I see great potential for hydrogen vehicles, for now they’re almost as quaint as the Benz Patent Motorwagon, and look at that company. Once the fuel is worked out, the rest is worth pursuing.
Until I can fill up on hydrogen conveniently and economically, I’ll stick to internal combustion. For now I’m content to ride my CB750, that cost about the same as the aftermarket forward controls for a Harley.
And on the subject of loud pipes. They get old fast. That goes for Civics with fart cans too. I put up with it on the grounds that I like loud V8’s but I never consider it a safety issue.
It’s riding skill, judgement and proper safetey gear that increase your chance of survival. (Sorry, but contrary to popular belief, your windblown hair, or baldspot, as the case may be, and denim vest, are no match for a full face helmet and leathers).
March 15th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
motorcycle enthusiast says:
Everyone that posted AGAINST motorcycling in general should be banned. But, I do agree on the subject of some pipes that are TOO LOUD. I do accept pipes at a certain sound level, but there are individuals that have no respect. To those individuals, do not forget the roots of transportation, cycles and motorized cycles. Those machines have transported (us) human beings for ages.
Everyone has the responsibility to respect human beings. Recently in San Francisco, there was a radio station that commented on “Running motorcyclist over” due to legal lane splitting. If you can imagine the impact of what words do publicly, then you would understand how to approach this issue. Please do not promote any words against motorcyclist; your words can literally kill.
YOU, THE PUBLIC, HAVE A SOCIAL RESPONSIBLITY TO PROMOTE A CIVILIZED COMMUNITY.
Imagine your child or someone you know that loves two wheeled riding and is killed by someone driving a car. That automobile driver didn’t like what the motorcyclist did on the road decides to run that motorcyclist over. Was that the right thing to do? Was it unfair thinking? Did the automobile driver CONSIDER that the motorcyclist does not have a metal cage around them?
Again, the issue is hydrogen powered vehicles. Hydrogen powered “cycles” is a brilliant concept that needs to spawn worldwide. Since I am a rotary engine enthusiast, I truly believe that hydrogen is the future. Rotary engines were based on hydrogen power, thank you Dr. Wankle.
To add, I have been a cyclist and motorcyclist since I was a child. I enjoy every form of two wheel transportation. I believe in alternative fuels. I believe in saving fuel. I believe that everyone should ride a motorcycle once in their lifetime (if physically possible). People I’ve known personally that were against motorcycling change when they ride one, on dirt and on pavement.
Peace.
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If you go back to comment 1 now over a year old speed1001 was then paying $7-9 to fill his tank, he would now be paying $13-15. If I buy a bike it would be to commute and I, like many others trying to save fuel costs have little interest in a gas bike that can travel at 2 or 3 times the legal limit.
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May 11th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Fire Gear Repair Guy says:
Loud Pipes Ruin Rides (and your ears). I ride a BMW bike everyday, rain or shine. I average about 18,000 miles EVERY YEAR. I love not being able to hear my bike. I know, I am probably not “a real biker” because I don’t believe in loud pipes. Loud Pipes may save lives in one way… You cannot stand to ride the bike, so you load it on the trailer to take it everywhere. As a paramedic, I can tell you that most motorcycle crash I have been on in the past 15 years have involved bikes with loud pipes.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:36 am
BUZZ says:
I am sure this will only add to the contriversey, but I got to put in my 2 cants worth.
First, sound travels faster than a motorcycle.
second, motorcycleists are not all bad. third, running a motorcyleist off the road is illegal everywhere. fourth, you dont have to have deafening pipes to be heard on a bike.
I have been riding for 20 years and have heard both sides of the argument. Both sides have a legitimate beef with the other. I have been saved from a innatantive drivers merge more than once, by sound alone getting thier attention. Sometimes by horn (which can be upgraded to 130 db) and some by exaust note, mine is apx 65db, well within legal limit. The worst times I have had on a motorcycle where when someone in an automobile thinks they have more right to use the road than I. To these people i must warn that I have on several occasions either arrested (part of my job) or detained by way of traffic stop (off duty). One guy thought that he could hit me with his car and it would be ok, simply because he was in a car and i chose to ride, in his opinion, an unsafe vehicle.
As a matter of fact, and you can look this up, most motorcycle fatalities are because of alcohol and or speed. When you remove those factors, innatentive drivers turning left in front of motorcycleists cause another large chunk.
on the subject of sound, i hate loud irritating pipes too. There is no reason to deafen people while riding a bike. It annoys non rides and does tend to make the rest of us look bad. Many loud pipe bikes tend to have performance up grades that produce tremendous power. As a by product they tend to speed more, and i find that those with disreguard for others comfort also tend to not give a shit when they drink and therefore tend to drive drunk more often than those riders that ride quieter bikes. But as is the case with everything, there are exceptions to that , so dont go thinking that i think drinkers or loud pipe guys are all dangerous or callous.
Hydrogen powerd vehicles are a step in the right direction. They show us what is possible for the future. Even if you love traditional power, you should realize that hydrogen can also be burned in an ICE (internal comustion engine) very efficiently. Check out youtube, look for a video on a guy named Stan Meyer, he found a way to produce hydrogen at the rate of 300% efficiency. Using very little voltage (apx 17v) and produced enough hydrogen to run an old VW ICE on nothing more than tap water. Strange tho, he was killed mysteriously not to long ago. I have my own conspiracy theories on that, but wont bore you.
Hydrogen is used to produce gasoline, look it up. Hydrogen is the cheepest most abundant resource available. It is easy to produce, you can make it in your garrage. The only real question is, what are we all going to do with the technology?
and for the guy who said he wants to run bikers off the road, watch out most of those guys can kick your ass, and if you kill one and go to jail, there are a bunch of them there to do the job too.
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Motorcycle Traveler says:
I always like it when somebody tells me that “Loud Pipes Save Lives.” I always respond with “So do helmets and protective clothing.” I have two very good friends that have loud pipes, and they REFUSE to wear helmets, even sometimes in states with helmet laws.
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